Curse

CKaz · Feb 21, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Do you really want to go through a pre-searing-esque area twice?
I guess you can, but I found presearin really boring either way, haha.
So, losing a low-level area isn't effecting me all too much. Considering it's what, 1/50th of the actual game?

Sure I'd love to go through the new contents version of pre-sear 2 or more times. I'd like to try one or both of the new characters and still don't have a primary ranger (sorry mesmer, I see no way I'll ever have primary room for you, but you're a great secondary!). Why is this even remotely suprising?

If anything Ascalon was a drag, not pre-sear.
And this will be entirely new content, and one would hope, different quests per class. I'm suprised you'd suggest once through only when we've had to endure prophecies 3+ times for most of us.

Plus it's been suggested there will be that much bigger of an area for it (not just the early levels but perhaps 1-15) and experiencing it as a different character class combination would make that much more sense.

Hanok Odbrook · Feb 21, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I, for one don't mind revisiting Pre-Searing, and still have one character in that world at the moment. I don't think many of us here are basing our sole decision to buy Factions on the number of character slots alone. There are several considerations I am pondering, including Anets near total lack of info on this new chapter, as part of my decision. I fully believe Anet intended only to give one character slot to upgraders, as the CGW article stated, despite their backtracking now. It's only through our outrage at that fact that they denied the truth of that statement and have remained vague on the subject ever since.

To begin with, simply buying a new game based on its content alone is a little foolish. One of the best CRPGs ever made was Temple of Elemental Evil, yet the game is so riff with bugs and other problems that it's not worth the money to spend on it. I made sure to do some research on the game and had the opportunity to know someone who had the game, so I could get some time in on it. Definately enjoyable, and also disappointing that the dev does not support it, otherwise I would have snatched up a copy in a heartbeat.

The same goes for Factions. I have no dbout that the new content and all will blow Prophecies away, but without some of these lingering problems being taken care of, it will not be worth spending my money and time on it. Anets silence on Factions, especially compared with the hype of Prophecies worries me. They certainly do not need to market Chapter 2 as they did Chap 1 since the game is established, but thus far, they have swung so far to the other end of the spectrum as to make me wonder what they are trying to hide. That's probably the biggest factor weighing on my decision at this point in time.

For me to continue to buy future installments of this game, Anet needs to do the following:

1) Bring the number of character slots in line with the number of primary professions with Factions. From that point on, they need only increase the number of slots when new professions/playable races are added to the game, still keeping the number of slots in line with the number of additions.

2) The amount of account storage needs to be increased dramatically. With the addition of special holiday items, mysterious quest items (tap shred), and the various types of salvage items, and mods for weapons and armor. A single character needs much more holding space than we have now. Selling Fetid Carapaces to make room for another weapon only to find out you can upgrade armor from a collector later on who needs Fetid Carapaces really sucks. That only forces me to grind to get items back, something Anet said they wanted to keep to a minimum with Guild Wars.

3) Explain how the quests and explorable areas will be handled in regards to top level characters brought over from one chapter to another, in comparision with starting characters in each chapter. What good will be doing 500 XP quests for a level 20 who needs thousands of XP to gain that next skill point. Just how much content am I going to miss out on when bringing a character from C1 to C2, and at which level will I be able to bring that character over - must they be level 20, or can I bring a lower level over?

4) What bonuses will I receive by purchasing the Pre-order and CE as opposed to just picking up a normal copy of Factions? Do I have to buy the Pre-order to get the special items, or will current account holders get a bonus of their own if combining chapters on one account?

5) Are there going to be more nerfs and content changes based on the PvP portion of the game or will the PvE portion regain some support. I bought GW because it was a PvE game with some PvP thrown in as extra. The PvPers who mistakenly bought this game have thus far been the ones that have been coddled by the devs. GW was never intended to be a PvP heavy type of game, and if it continues to lean more towards that aspect, then I certainly won't continue to play it.

Make no mistake, I certainly want to get Factions, and would like to upgrade both of my accounts with the new content. However, until Anet's silence is lifted, and the above problems addressed, among others not mentioned here, then I certainly won't be spending any more money on the game. I expect to gain two character slots if upgrading an account, and if that's the case, I certainly won't upgrade more than one account. However, if I get a full eight slots to match all eight primes, then I won't hesitate to buy two copies of Factions, including at least one CE, and continue to upgrade so long as that trend is continued with future chapters.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Gli · Feb 21, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Do you really want to go through a pre-searing-esque area twice?
I guess you can, but I found presearin really boring either way, haha.
So, losing a low-level area isn't effecting me all too much. Considering it's what, 1/50th of the actual game?

Yeah, I kinda like playing through pre-Searing, sue me.

It's not just the pre-Searing equivalent part of the Factions I meant though. Since all my existing characters (in slots I already paid for) are level 20, the whole part of Factions designed for pre-level 20 play will be unsuitable for them. In Prophecies terms, that's all content going from pre-Searing up to the Crystal desert, give or take some depending on your play style. This will probably amount to a sizeable chunk of the game, for which I'll only have 2 character slots? No thanks, 4 slots weren't enough for me to fully enjoy what Prophecies had to offer, and I'm sure not going to get into Factions if I have only half of that to go through what's being said to be a bigger game.

TGgold · Feb 22, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Oh, you were one of the people who was never happy with what we got to begin with. My answer: buy 2 accounts.
That's what I had to do. That's what a lot of people do. How do you think ANET can keep up producing games if you *only* had to buy once to have *everything*. It's not smart from a market standpoint. I'm just glad that we have the game at all ^_^

And the PvE is ridiculously easy anyways, so why would you want to have to use low leveled characters? Does it increase the story value to you? I mean, I can see how most will just form lvl20 groups for early missions, but that's not a real loss in my opinion. It's just reducing grind :P

Gli · Feb 22, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

And the PvE is ridiculously easy anyways, so why would you want to have to use low leveled characters? Does it increase the story value to you? I mean, I can see how most will just form lvl20 groups for early missions, but that's not a real loss in my opinion. It's just reducing grind :P

Frankly, your posts come across as if you're just arguing for the sake of the argument. First, you appear all psyched about this huge new game, chock full of new and awesome content, a few posts later you sound like you're bored with Fractions already. Using level 20 characters for low level missions? Please...

Rayne Nightfyre · Feb 24, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Hypnotist

I'm undecided about the issue of extra character slots. When the first news of Chapter 2 started out I assumed there would be another 4 character slots just like Chapter 1. Word around the campfire suggests that if you only have a Chapter 1 account then you get 4 characters slots, and if you only have a Chapter 2 account you will get 4 character slots but your 4 characters are assigned to their specific chapter.

However, if you have a Chapter 1 account and upgrade it with Chapter 2 then you will only have 5 character slots, not 8. You sacrifice 3 character slots in order for all your characters to be able to cross between the chapters. This strikes me as a little unfair seeing as everyone will be paying the same price for Chapter 2 yet those who want to use their existing characters in Cantha, plus try out the new professions would need another account.

Does this make any sense or am I just exposing you lot to the chaotic jumble from inside my head?

Very well said, this describes my frustration 110%. I have two accounts, my main with 4 PvE characters, all of who have completed the storyline, have all skills, wear 15k armor, etc etc. And then on my second account, I have 2 PvE characters, to complete all 6 professions. They are both near end-game. My point is that I will be adding Factions to my main account, simply because it is the one with all my work, over [censored] hours! So deleting any of my characters is simply not an option. I have heard rumors that they will not add any slots at all if you have both games combined, so I will refrain from complaining too much, 5 is better than 4.

But again...6 is better than 5...right?

coolsti · Feb 24, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

My mind is made up. Whether I buy Factions right away, or instead wait countless months until the prices drop signicantly, depends on what an upgrade costs and what is offered regarding extra character slots.

My wife and I share 3 accounts, she having 6 characters and I having 5 (I haven't made a warrior yet). We play our various characters quite often, and so would like to have our current characters, all of them, have access to the new chapter's worlds. So our intention would be to buy Chapter 2 as an upgrade or add on to our Chapter 1's (all three of them = three upgrades) rather than just buying one or two full Chapter 2 licenses as stand alones.

But we also want to play the new characters. Both of them, each of us. But we will not want to delete any of our existing characters. So if Anet is only offering 1 extra character slot for the "upgrade" option, how would this even be possible? Will they make it possible and necessary to buy two upgrades for each original Chapter 1 account in order to add 2 new character slots in such a way that the new and old characters can travel to both worlds?

And if the "upgrade" option is anywhere near the price of the full but stand alone Chapter 2 but offering only 1 extra character slot, this would be truely an unfair deal.

So I for one, as well as my wife, will wait out and see what is offered before deciding whether to continue on to Chapter 2.

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

And if the "upgrade" option is anywhere near the price of the full but stand alone Chapter 2 but offering only 1 extra character slot, this would be truely an unfair deal.

.

there is ZERO price between the merged and stand alone game.

SAME GAME AND THE SAME PRICE

after you buy it you decide which way to install it

IT IS THE SAME FULL GAME/SAME FULL PRICE

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 24, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

loviatar but by merging them you are in fract upgrading your gw account.

please reread everything that he said in stead of staring blindly to one snippit...

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

loviatar but by merging them you are in fract upgrading your gw account.

please reread everything that he said in stead of staring blindly to one snippit...

play fair now.

i was addressing the price issue because he seemed to have the idea that a merged account would be somehow cheaper which is not the case.

indeed he seems to think of it as an expansion at a greatly reduced price as from this quote

Quote:

And if the "upgrade" option is anywhere near the price of the full but stand alone Chapter 2 but offering only 1 extra character slot, this would be truely an unfair deal.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 24, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Or the way you could interprete it also is that if the 'upgrade' costs as much as using it standalone while not getting the same number of charslots then it would be an unfair deal. Meaning he would only be willing to pay the full price for the ability to use it as an upgrade if he got at least the same number of slots as if it is used standalone.

And i think i have made already a couple posts about why it can be seen as an update/upgrade even though it has new content. (but tell me one upgrade that doesn't involve new content...)

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

(but tell me one upgrade that doesn't involve new content...)

great big

on the other hand name a single *expansion/upgrade* that had a full game of content AND did not require the original *upgraded* game to be installed to play

if someone who has never heard of GUILDWARS: CHAPTER 1 gets chapter 2 as a gift he/she will have a full, entire, uncut game to play.

if they then get the bug and go back for chapter 1 they will have the treat of a second full, uncut, unexpurgated , unshortened, game to play.

to me that is a new game with the option to carry over characters and not simply an expansion or upgrade

just my opinion

forever · Feb 24, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

No more discussion. Anet, please, listen to us, just tell us you will give us 4 extra slots, and everyone will be happy, including Loviatar. That's the best way to solve this problem.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 24, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

loviatar,

buying chapter 2 and then chapter one will not offer you a full new game.

you will only get acces to more skills of the coreclass and the actuall access to the the worlds. The only difference with a regular expansion is that the expansion isn't necessarilly the next chapter but can also be the previous due to the standalone feature. Don't let yourself be fooled by a mere marketingstunt...

Heck it wouldn't surprise me if chapter 3 would contain the classes of chapter one with their coreskills and the classes of chapter 2 with their coreskills and then the actual new content from chapter 3 which again could be used standalone or in combination. In hte end because of the overlap of the content it is and always will remain just an expansion to the people already owning a previous chapter. It would have been a fully new game if:

a) it contained all new chars
b) it contained a complete new world and quests
c) there is no overlap with a previous chapter

just my opinion.

Gli · Feb 24, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Who cares what they (or anyone for that matter) decide to call it? It doesn't change anything. Semantics have nothing to do with the number of slots on accounts with joined GW and GW:F keys. They can call it whatever they want, it's not going to change anyone's opinions.

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

loviatar,

buying chapter 2 and then chapter one will not offer you a full new game.

you will only get acces to more skills of the coreclass and the actuall access to the the worlds. .

you will get everything that we (or i) have been playing since early release which i consider a full game.

someone buying chapter 1 after chapter 2 will get

every mission

every quest

every square inch of explorable area

every chance to go through the same amount of content that i have

if you get every thing that we have been enjoying so far how can you say that the full chapter 1 we have is not a full game?

honestly curious

the world with everything in it to do along with the characters to do it with are the game to me

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 24, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Sigh,

please reread what i jolted down. You completely ignore it

But I'l try to rephrase it, imagine that the skills to ranger spike weren't available, since they aren't deemed to be coreskills. Lets for the point of illustration use orders for them. How could you say that playing b/p in Tombs is still the same? And you can draw this line on for all the non core skills.

And once more, the point isn't what you get, but the point is what you get extra. If I would sell you a new car for the full price but replace the engine with the one you were using before. Would you still ocnsider that a new car or would you consider it an update/expansion to your old car?

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

Sigh,

please reread what i jolted down. You completely ignore it

But I'l try to rephrase it, imagine that the skills to ranger spike weren't available, since they aren't deemed to be coreskills. Lets for the point of illustration use orders for them. How could you say that playing b/p in Tombs is still the same? And you can draw this line on for all the non core skills.

?

since that is pvp i will answer

FACTION

before scooting for a bit

cheers

CKaz · Feb 24, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

And we still wait for an answer from ANet.

Hopefully they'll listen to those of us who want to play each primary, who want to play pvp, who want to play along with friends/others, who have bought the multiple copies for themselves, who have bought multiple copies for their households, and who won't buy further chapters without some consideration.

Being left with 5 or 6 slots with chapter1&2 linked is without such consideration. 8 isn't a crazy lot here folks, and what the storage requirement is for those without linked accounts paying the same $. So what is the big friggin deal.

We're not complaining about the cost (full standalone price? good for you!)
However there certainly will be a problem if even that won't result in us reaching 8 slots (rumored CE, any other $ option), being nothing less than a slap in the face to a lot of people looking at continuing, and many of those across multiple copies.

That's the gotcha here IMO. A lot of us first saw it and said 'meh, I like the game, expansion shoulda been $30 but I'll do it'. Go GW/ANet, cha-ching.

Now a lot of us are like 'woah, so I'm a returning gamer, I've been dying for character slots to add to my account, and you're going to cough up *1*, maybe *2*? For $50? so I'll have to delete some characters to play how I want too, and pay the premium price for that privellege?'

I bought 2 GW:P @$50. I'd buy 2 GW:F @$50 if it wasn't for the slot BS.
Now I might buy 0 more chapters, like many others have mentioned.

I think its a bigger crossroad than many people get.
Yeah they had 'UAS' but now they've got their million and their niche, and want to set up re-occuring chapters and re-occuring $ (hey monthly model!)

Wouldn't it be silly not to resolve their 'oops' from GW:P and add two slots there so they'll keep those of us trapped on their chapter gravy train?

Or better to ignore it and just pull in new people?
If they do 1 or 2 unlock slots I'd love to see the resulting #s for those NOT returning and how many accounts go on the chopping block. Lots of options out there.

I'd rather continue on into GW:F if given the room to enjoy it. But that excitement has been drained a lot w/o any kind of word. 4 days away and we're still talking about it. Meh.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 24, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

since that is pvp i will answer

FACTION

before scooting for a bit

cheers

That wasn't even an pvp example seeing as barrage pet gets used in pve tombs... to farm for greens quite nicely and effectively. But really even with faction you still wouldn't unlock the skills that aren't coreskills, not to mention that i didn't even understand what that post of yours was going on about... but maybe that is just because I'm no native anglosaxian.

And yeah Ckaz your prolly right.